This week, the uproar over Harlequin’s new vanity press line (similar to Thomas Nelson’s) and the reaction of RWA, SFWA, MWA and others to it has caused a lot of authors to wake up. I’ve been in this business for 20 years and the one thing I have always seen is a subtle lack of respect for authors on the part of many publishers, agents and editors. I just read Michael Hyatt’s blog where he mentions ‘authors ripping off publishers’ because their books don’t earn out. I constantly see agents tweet or blog about how hard it is to wade through the un-professional queries they receive. I guess that’s called work. Like writing on spec is work.
I’m not saying they are bad people or are consciously doing this, but there is a pervasive attitude that authors are replaceable cogs in the publishing machine. And since most writers are so desperate to get published, there are many cogs standing in line.
It’s almost like the scene in The Player where the studio exec exclaims how much easier the movie business would be if they could only get rid of the writers.
I would submit the following to you: Editors and agents usually start off as interns in the publishing business. Or at the very least, at an entry level job. They learn about the business and work their way up. They are not thrust suddenly into selling or buying a book the first day on the job.
Authors are thrust into the business the first day on the job. And no one teaches them a thing. I’d like to ask this: Is there any agent or editor who has a formal training program in place for new authors? Where they educate the author on how the business works?
“We don’t have time” every agent and editor I mention this to, replies. But you do have time to have a 90% failure rate on first novels? I suggest considering making the time or outsourcing the training. Because the current economy is not going to allow such a business paradigm to survive.
As it is now we have the “osmosis” training model for authors. Go to conferences. Join writers groups. Talk to other authors. All a hit-miss proposition. The biggest problem is a new author doesn’t even know the right questions to ask.
I started my Warrior Writer program by using the business template that the elite Special Forces uses to train the best soldiers in the world and applying it to being an author. I use 20 years and 40 books published and 20 years as a Special Forces A-Team leader, operations officer and instructor at the JFK Special Warfare Center & School, to develop a nine-step program that focuses on writers developing a career plan; examine their personality and how it affects their writing and their interaction with the publishing world; conquering fear; effective marketing; taking command of their own fate; and so on.
I think self-publishing (NOT vanity like HQ and Thomas Nelson are offering) is a viable option for some non-fiction authors who have a platform and a unique hook. Bottom line for fiction authors: forget about it. Yes, you can cite one or two examples of unique success, but 99.9% of self-published fiction is a waste of time and money.
A lot of people are going to waste a lot of money at HQ and Thomas Nelson using their vanity press arm. And HQ and Thomas Nelson are going to make a lot of money off these wanna-be writers—not readers. Makes you wonder what kind of business template that is.
To all you wanna-be authors. Caveat Emptor.
Thank you for your post. You’re so very right.
Bob, you raise excellent points in your post. I think there is a lot of pressure on new writers but also, as you pointed, out, we don’t even know the right questions to ask. I think the Harlequin and Nelson ventures seek to make money off of new writer desperation and lack of knowledge.
And yes, it is caveat emptor but it’s a shame that some people are going to get screwed and are going to take it with a smile.
Great post Bob, and so very true.
There needs to be change in the industry. There need to be more options for writers to make a career in this business.
But Vanity publishing is NOT one of those options.
Thank you for taking time to post this. It makes me feel better.
“As it is now we have the “osmosis” training model for authors.”
This statement is so true it’s sad. I’ve been in this business for five years. Not long at all, but I was fortunate to find places (stumble upon them, really) that taught me what I know now. And I still don’t know everything I should. There is so much focus on the craft of writing, how to make your work good enough to sell that the rest gets pushed to the back. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard or been told “don’t put the cart before the horse”. Quite frankly a writer should so when an author finally does get the contract/sell they are not thrown off guard by the true business side of publishing.
I’m finding it amazing that Thomas Nelson and Harlequin are telling authors to use their vanity arm as a viable option to traditional publishers yet also are trying to stat in business as traditional publishers. Talk about the snake eating its tail.
I’ve heard all kinds of accusations made against such publishers- that they are luring naive authors with the “farming” bit, with the distribution- even world wide- bit, with taking the author’s money and run, with inundating the author’s garage with thousands of unwanted books, that they are desecrating the name they bear. However, there’s one thing I’ve not heard at all sounded in the air and that is, the money such publishers earn from the self-published authors is bunked together with the traditional branch- now that piece of news should have at least made quite a few bones rattle in the publishing world- and yet not a word.
So I shall say something about this: All you agents, published authors out there, it is time to stop moaning, it is time to stop calling self-published authors stupid because it will be thanks to the money I spend on publishing my book, that yours gets printed for free and it is my money that will get it sponsored and agents can sit back and reap the rewards. There’s no justice! I know. Justice will be done if and when I get to sell a heck lot more books than you ever will and I will get the same amount of royalty for 100 books sold that you would for 1,000. So all you moaners out there who enjoy cat calling us “inferior” authors will one day have to find answers for these questions. Who is a second class author? Who is naive? Who is mentally retarded? A WestBow Author is, of course… is what you say today… We’ll see.
I’m an author (disclaimer: with TNP, but they were not my entry into publishing) and I have to say, maybe I’ve hung out with different people, but the agent I used to work with (she moved) for several years was all about showing me the ropes. My editorial team with both publishers have been amazing to work with and to help me develop as an author. I don’t know how “formal” the process was, so maybe it was just more relational.
The information I learned from them, and from editors and agents and managers who don’t work directly with me have helped me learn so much in the last few years. So…you may speak of the majority, but I don’t believe it is fair to make a broad, sweeping statement.
And to the person who said that published author’s books get printed for “free…” Yeah. Nice try. Take a look at my taxes and expenses and investments into my own published book(s). It’s not solely the publisher’s responsibility to market my book. It ultimately boils down to me.
If I didn’t have a contract, I would completely consider Westbow or “vanity” publishing as some have called it. I believe in my message and my voice so much that it is worth the investment.
Good feedback. Wait, maybe as Michael Hyatt does, I should delete anyone who disagrees with me as ‘inflammatory’. Nah, that’s called being a coward.
Snark can be good…but seriously…there’s enough crap in the world. I wish we could all just play nice. This is such a relational industry…it’s just wise.
True. But I didn’t start with saying authors rip off publishers. And I made a moderate reply on the man’s blog, which he promptly deleted because it opposed his POV. I agree. I don’t think self-published authors are losers or stupid. I just think we all need to be much better informed. That’s my goal. Self-publishing definitely has a place but the business model offered by HQ and Thomas Nelson is the worst of both worlds.
I have a hard time calling what Harlequin Horizons (Harlequin) and WestBow Press (Thomas Nelson) are doing “self-publishing”. I understand that to some, this maybe simply be a game of word play, but I don’t think so.
In self-publishing the author in essence becomes the publisher. While they “hire” out a company to do the printing, no one is sitting on the other end of the line offering them an “a la cart” publishing package and telling them that if they BUY this and BUY that they increase their chances of being picked up by a traditional publisher.
The problem I have with what Harlequin and Thomas Nelson are doing is that they are 1) calling a vanity press self-publishing and 2) they are telling writers that their book isn’t right for their lines, but go PAY us money and we will help you publish it instead of PAYING you and if you sell really hard, and buy all these packages just maybe someone will notice you and just possibly pick you up. But PAY us first.
Eyes Wide Open.
I also have a hard time with people who never wore the uniform using military examples for leadership. I know the corporate world is hard. I have many friends who struggle in it and do great jobs against great odds. But if you get killed for not making the deal, then use the military as an example, Mister Hyatt.
First of all let me say that I appreciate the fact that you are giving me an opportunity to express my views on your blog, knowing that I will disagree with you- but I promise I will not be offensive, if I am, I strongly advise you to delete it, it is your prerogative. I should also like to tell you that I worked for Cdr. USASETAF for five years but had more dealings with the 509th Airborne, purple berets than the green ones, with the hope you will not hold that against me!
I am not going to defend Harlequin or Thomas Nelson but just describe what these new imprints are about. They are not Vanity Publishers because such would mean they send you thousands of unwanted books to your garage and you sell them even though they keep 50% or so of royalty. They are not Self-Publishers because that would mean you do everything, and I mean everything yourself but you get to keep, obviously, 100% of the royalty. People have tagged them as Self-Pub for convenience. But they are ASSISTED publishing, which means you ask them, in the basic package, to publish your book, exactly the way you want it, or seek advice if you want a second opinion. They then have a distribution system in which you as the author like in traditional publishing, if you have any sense, will aid to sponsor your own book since putting a book on a shelf doesn’t mean it sells. You get 20% of the royalty for soft copies. With traditional publishers you get more or less 5% of which 15% is given to your agent- who has done what? Given you access to a publisher, changed your book round so much because obviously you are not the expert that an ASSISTED publishing author is otherwise you would take the responsibility of investing in your book with real money.
The way I see it is that such publishers cannot publish in the traditional manner, give out advances that are not earned out and survive. The problem is indeed that traditional authors expect to have their book published, get a big advance, and if it doesn’t earn out hard luck for the publisher- they have to take risks. Well not anymore- you pay, and it’s only a partial amount, for the cost involved so your book is published and what replaces your advance is the increased royalty percentage, so no one loses out. I don’t see any unfairness in that at all, it’s what they have been doing in most countries, except the UK, for decades.
Have a good day
Eva
Last I saw, Harlequin was making a profit from Traditional Publishing. Maybe not each book earned out, but the company itself is operating in the black. The Parent company is a different story.
I want to address one of the things that bothers me the most about Vanity Publishing or what this idea of Assisted Publishing. The money is not flowing toward the creator of the product… the book.
In traditional publishing the consumer is the READER. The publishing houses are in business to make a profit off the readers. And I have no issue with anyone looking to earn a living. Its kind of necessary. Where do publishers get the written word? Through writers that SUBMIT to them. It is the publishers responsibility to BUY those books that they think will make a profit. The publisher then PAYS the writer for their work and the publisher then does their best to make a profit. If it earns out, the author gets a bonus in royalties.
In what is now being described as ASSISTED publishing the consumer is not the reader but the WRITER. The company is now looking to make money off the WRITER and not the product the writer is producing. What Thomas Nelson and Harlequin have done is turn the book business into a service business; a business where the idea is to attract writers to buy their service, not attract readers to buy their books.
Eva you stated, “You get 20% of the royalty for soft copies. With traditional publishers you get more or less 5% of which 15% is given to your agent- who has done what?”
First, the author has to recoup the cost they paid the Assisted Publisher for making their book before they will start making a profit. I think if you do the math, the money the author forks over for to have their book published with this model is more than the 15% they would pay an agent who has negciated the contract, worked for hours on getting the book to publishers, and lets remember agents don’t get paid until the author gets paid. In the model of Assisted Publishing, the company making the book for the author gets paid up front.
Personally, if anyone wants to go do this, great. Go for it. Just go into with all the facts. This is not a short cut into making a career out of writing.
I apologise Jenni if I have not expressed myself clearly but I did mention that “you pay, only a partial amount, for the cost involved” for publication in Assisted Publishing. The Agent Rachelle Gardner has given a detailed breakdown of cost involved in the publication of a book in Trade Paper which comes to $58,000 and Hard Back is $90,000. See her blog here: http://cba-ramblings.blogspot.com/2009/11/is-your-book-worth-it.html As you probably know, Harlequin asks for $600 and CrossBow $1,000 for a basic package which involves what I explained in my comment previously. So, perhaps now it is clearer why I don’t think it is possible that Assisted Publishing is there to make money off writers. They are there to give an unprecedented, excellent opportunity to writers who have no access to publishers because agents have denied them that access as judging such authors not fit for publication. Finally, publishing houses are opening up the doors to us, as most agents define us, SECOND CLASS authors. And I for one, thank them.
High 5s ~ well said.
I still disagree, even more so now. I also disagree that agents deny access to publishers. Many publishers ACCEPT unagented material. You do not need an agent to publish with Harlequin with their category lines. Anyone can submit their work. Agents are not denying me access to anything. Many publishers send editors to conferences who then request material. Many of these publishers generally do not take unsolicited or unagented manuscripts, yet they will here.
Also, Agents are not saying my work is unfit to be published. However, under that same statement if a publisher rejects an unagented manuscript are you saying that they are judging it unfit to be published?
We are never going to agree on this issue. I don’t expect us too. I’m not trying to change your mind. I do however believe that it is important for writers to be informed of how all of these models work. I will always have a problem with writers PAYING to have their work published.
Publishers DO NOT accept unagented material. Agents only choose those they fancy to present to a publisher, not because us, SECOND CLASS authors are inferior but because they choose to keep us out- How do they choose the “Good” authors- Answer: Those they can maneuver. Yes, I think authors should be kept informed- I have 40 years experience in collecting this information.
And I also need to add, if agents don’t want us- what is an author to do? An author has NO choice without an agent- that is why if the influence of an agent is curtailed- the chances of some SECOND CLASS authors to shine become a reality. I have yet to deal with an agent who is OPEN to us SECOND CLASS authors- perhaps some exist, but none have been on my path- and I’ve dealt more than I have seen Sunday dinners. And I’m sorry you are unable to see that or object to me trying to find a different route to success- that’s not nice at all, from one author to another.
Ooops, typo left out a word, should read: “I’ve dealt with more AGENTS than I’ve seen Sunday dinners”
Harlequin, long before it opened its Harlequin Horizons DOES accept unagented material. Tor Forge also accepts unagented material. I am not going to list all the publishers that do, but if you look at WRITER’S MARKET it will explain to you which publishers are accepting unagented material and what they publish and how to contact them.
I do not see how anyone is keeping you out of the business of publishing? Especially agents. WestBow Press exists as do many other presses like them. Anyone can purchase the package and publish their book there. The key word here is “purchase”.
I’m an author and right now I do not have an agent and I have choices. Lots of them.
“Is there any agent or editor who has a formal training program in place for new authors? Where they educate the author on how the business works?”
Actually, we do, although we think of it as building the author’s team through coaching, rather than training. Dogs are trained, Authors are people. I admire the US Special Forces people; they may be trained on a weapon, but are primarily coached to apply judgement to improvise and overcome unforeseen situations. But you know better than I. At the Ashley Grayson Agency we work hard to inform, coach and explain the process to our clients as we develop a strategy for their book and career. All our clients are businesses. Once we have negotiated a deal, we know how to present “what the deal means” but only the author, as his/her own CEO can decide how to act. Sometimes publisher’s offers reduce to: “Do you want to have heartburn now or later?” and we encourage our clients to make informed decisions.
I present some of this insight at no cost when attending conferences and we’ve been very well received. I intend to provide more on our blog.
More about The Ashley Grayson Agency at:
http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/members/CGrayson/
Publishers DO NOT accept unagented material.
With a vehement stance like that with no actual evidence behind it, makes me think you are the exact person Harlequin Horizons is looking for. You’ve been doing your research for 40 years and you haven’t found a publisher who accepts unagented material? Not one?
I call your entire argument false at this point.
Ooops- I apologize about that- I should have said MOST publishers DO NOT Accept unagented material, at least not in my category which is not romance or science fiction. I remember in my younger days one could apply directly to a number of publishers, certainly publishers like Mills & Bloom, but that is not the case now- apart from Romance fiction publishers. However, you can bet you jump the queue even with a Romance Publisher if you have an agent. I am not arguing about agents. If agents don’t want us- what is an author to do? An author has NO choice without an agent- that is why if the influence of an agent is curtailed- the chances of some SECOND CLASS authors to shine become a reality. I have yet to deal with an agent who is OPEN to us SECOND CLASS authors- perhaps some exist, but none have been on my path- and I’ve dealt with more agents than I have seen Sunday dinners. I think Assisted publishing like WestBow is an unprecedented, excellent opportunity for us, often categorized by agents as “second class”, “inferior fodder” of the writing industry. I’m sorry that so many authors and agents on the net are unable to see that or object aggressively to me trying to find a different route to success- that’s not nice at all, from one author to another.
Leaving aside for the moment the difference between vanity and self-publishing, go look at Lulu.com, a real self-publisher and compare the costs of publishing with them to the cost of publishing with Author Solutions, which is what you’ll get with HQ. The difference is significant. For one thing, Lulu gives you 80% of your cover price with no up front fee. I am not affiliated with this site, I just like the way they do business.
I have no problem with self-publishing, if I ever write something nobody else will take that I want out there, I’m going to Lulu.com in a heartbeat. I have a huge problem with recognized publishers promising people that they can pay to get published and it’ll be just as effective as standard publishing. They’re scamming people who want to be published but who don’t understand how the business works, who think that if they get their books in print they’ll be rich and famous, who think that a standard publisher might pick up their books once they get them out there (that happens in non-fiction, not so much in fiction). The thing that bugs me the most about this is that HQ knows what they’re doing, and they know they’re doing it in a time when people are desperate for money. That’s why they’re doing it, their parent company’s profits are way down. It’s just sleazy, and they’ve already tarnished their brand by doing it. People are hoping they’ll get the Harlequin imprint on their books (they won’t) which will give them some credibility; instead, HQ’s credibility has taken a disastrous hit. When the three major writers organizations who deal with your authors disavow you, you’ve made a big mistake.
If you really want to be self-published, and I see no reason why not to go that route, go to Lulu and just pay for printing your books, not for some parent company’s losses.
Oh, and as for why people think of books published by vanity presses as second class, publishing is a business (that’s the first lesson of learning about publishing, not an art, a business) and in any business if you have a product people won’t pay for, you tend to not get much respect. In publishing, that doesn’t mean your book is bad, it means nobody thinks they can sell it. Since status in publishing is pretty much assigned according to number of books sold/profit, that puts people who can’t sell their books below those who can. It’s business, not a comment on how good your book is.
Long post. Sorry. Hi, Bob.
I enjoyed reading your argument, Jenny, and you make some good sensible statements- but taken for granted that I am neither naive, or mentally retarded and I have been waiting to be published for decades why haven’t I already done so with Lulu or any other Vanity/Self-Published Press? Quite honestly, you all know the answer deep down but don’t want to face up to it. Never mind, I forgive you.
Quite honestly, I do not know why you have not already published with Lulu or any other vanity publisher, self-publisher or as you call it “assisted” publisher. I do however know why I have not and have no issue facing up to it.
Jenni, I haven’t published up to now simply because there was not ASSISTING publishing before.
Ooops another typo- Jenni, I haven’t published up to now simply because there was NO ASSISTED Publishing before. There, now I’ve got it right. Sorry.
To the extent that this post is explicitly about Harlequin/Thomas Nelson’s vanity lines, it seems a bit confusing to talk about other publishing options, particularly in countries other than the U.S. that might have massively different laws, corporation structures, publishing models, etc. I’ve become pretty familiar with what Harlequin Horizons will be (well, to the extent that Harlequin is keeping its story straight on that), but I’m afraid the discussion won’t be productive if it strays off into what this or that publisher in another genre or even a different country is doing.
For the sake of clarify, I’d love to get a few definitions straight. From what I understand:
Self-publishing: A writer pays purely for the printing of books. There’s no assistance with editing, marketing, or anything else — no interaction with a traditional publisher. One pays a printer straightforwardly for paper and ink, and must obtain ISBNs oneself. In the production chain, the author is also the wholesaler (if she tries to have bookstores carry her work) or the direct retailer (whether out of the trunk of her car or through a medium like Amazon).
Vanity publishing: Comes at different levels, but requires the author to pay for more than ink and paper; a minimum, some copy editing. Can go all the way up through a full edit, cover design, and marketing, but each of these must be paid for by the author. Harlequin Horizon is of this type. Moreover, HH has specifically said that the Harlequin name will not be on these books, and that they will not be shelved with Harlequin books at a retailer.
Assisted publishing: I am not quite sure what this is. This site (http://www.discoveredauthors.co.uk/pub_assisted.html) gives the impression that it’s vanity publishing under a politer name.
Having read all the arguments–One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is that one reason there are agents and why some publishers don’t accept unagented materials is that agents provide a filter for the publisher. The book may likely be good but not good enough. But it could also be the case that the author may not have submitted to the right agent or publisher, or it isn’t the right time for the book. Then it likely won’t be signed with an agent, and may not be published. The agent is quality control, but it isn’t a perfect system, since there are other reasons why a book or author isn’t signed.
Are readers going to want to read books whose quality is in question?
Are bookstores won’t be carrying books which weren’t published through the regular channels, when books that did don’t normally stay on the shelves that long either?
Assisted publishing still sounds like these publishers just want to make some money off of someone, regardless of the quality of the work. They may be better than self-publishing, but…
Self-publishing and Vanity publishing (or Assisted publishing) still don’t seem like very good options. However, as Jenny said, if I had a book that someone wouldn’t publish and absolutely wanted it published and was willing to pay the money to do it, I’d do it. But be prepared for some disappointment down the line.
Your choice, your life, your money. Good luck!
Ahh. What about the agent’s perspective. Not an agent, but this is what I understand. The agent is looking at queries and saying, “what looks like I’d want to spend $2,000 on it in hopes of getting it published & starting this author’s career.”
Also agenting a book is like dating. If you’re dating one person, you aren’t open necessarily to dating someone else. It’s opportunity cost. And it Is a business, but these are also people who love books and want to see them published.
Assisted publishing? Good luck. Go for it Eva. Spend yor money. Come back in a year or so and let us know how it’s gone. Thanks.
I’m looking at the clock and wondering where the time has gone as I read these eye-opening replies. I thank each of you for informing me. What self-published books have shown me is authors with good intentions, a healthy dose of naivete and some shamefully poor editing. Sure, it’s gratifying to have your books out there, but you want to look as professional as possible; otherwise, what good is it? I personally would have no use for assisted publishing, regardless of who the mother ship is, or any other publishing that would turn out a product that would be less than stellar in its presentation. Personally, I hope I don’t eat these words as prospective authors also have a healthy dose of impatience to introduce their writing to readers they know will enjoy their work.
Thanks “admin” for some solid advice- you are right the only way to find out is to do it and then, however it goes I will come back and tell you, also because I am hoping you will help me. Would you be able to put me in contact with the Veterans of 509th Airborne, 559th Artillery and normal soldiers who served at Cdr., USASETAF in Vicenza, Italy from 1977 to 1982? The book I plan to publish is a narrative of Rajastani History (India) spanning 1,500 years, called RAJPUT. Something they would like as it is full of battles, throne swiping and Mughal attempts to conquer the Rajput race.
The soldiers will certainly remember me because I used to be in the publications and Records Management so they came to me when they wanted to learn how to file or publish anything- forms, letters, directives. I was known as “DUCKY” in the reproduction department. A duck was my rubber stamp for printing authorisation. I enjoyed being on here. Hope our paths cross again pretty soon. Thanks for having me.
Eva
Well, WestBow Press (Thomas Nelson) isn’t the first publisher to give vanity publishing a new name. A company in the UK, Discovered Authors has also renamed vanity publishing as “Assisted Publishing”. Another company called the Authors Friend also offers assisted publishing.
It’s a new twist on an old model. You can dress it up and call it anything you like, its still paying to be published.
I went to WestBow’s site and I could pay between $1000.00 to $6499.00. Plus, depending on the package I purchased, I can also add to my shopping cart things like
hardcover format at $350,
editorial review at $342,
Data Entry service for 4 dollars a page (this is where they take your manuscript and make it a working digital file),
Indexing Service for $240 (this create a generated index of words and usage, um, I can do that with the software on my computer for free)
ebook format for 99$ (I went with a small press that does the no advance model and i did not pay for this service, my publisher did, i however get a nice little royalty check)
Promotional materials like bookmarks, business cards for $420 dollars (FYI You can get all of this, quality material too through VistaPrint. They have great discount offers.)
You can buy a booksigning kit for $350. (um, hello, how hard is it?)
for a book trailer (without voice over) 2,279.00 (I know professional companies that do them for 50-300, they do a good job too)
For the booksellers return it’s $849.00 (they are not going to bring your book into the store. FYI, my books are returnable and they are not in stores, but then again, i didn’t have to pay to have them printed, my publisher took the risk and i get the royalties, just saying the no advance model is better than the pay model any day of the week. Oh, and I have made a profit, small, a profit non-the-less)
There are few more but I have to put this one in here… for $959.00 there is the social media set up. Not going to touch this one.
If anyone wonders why many writers are having a hard time with Assisted Publishing over being paid for their work, well, then assisted publishing is for you. Go. Spend your money. Say you are published.
If you want to be published and selling books and earning a living don’t mean anything to you, then spend less money on being self-published with something like Lulu or try your hand at epublishing with a small press that takes advantage of Print-On-Demand technology.
Bravo. Enough said.
‘authors ripping off publishers’
This is the one that stuns me. Clearly he does not get it. Writers sell a widget(copyright) that publishers believe they can sell more of than the advance. Not earning out the advance is not a case of the writer ripping off the publisher, but the publisher not reselling their product.
I’m still laughing from my RWA cohort who made the comment that these vanity publishers should earn out their ‘advance’ that the writers pay them before the publisher earns any royalties.
Interesting comments but I’m coming in late to the party so will just stand in the corner and have a drink. : )
Hope you and your family have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Bob.
Pete, first, what Harlequin and Thomas Nelson are doing is not really self-publishing. You can call it assisted publishing or vanity publishing, or whatever else you want, but its not self-publishing.
Second, if all someone wants to do is publishing a book for family and friends, there are SO MANY other options out there that would cost them a fraction of the price that both of these publishers under Author Solutions are asking.
Also, there is the option of small ebook presses that don’t require any money and offer Print-on-Demand technology and the author, oh my goodness, actually gets to make a small profit.
Thomas Nelson might still acquiring books the traditional way, offering writers money for their work, but then you are effectively telling writers where you reject their work that it’s not good enough for you to pay for it, or right for your market for you to pay for it, but hey, give us money and we’ll publish it for you.
I don’t care what spin you put on it, you are taking money from the writers hands instead of paying them for their work. Writers–should get paid!
I bury my head in work for a few days, and I miss a really good discussion.
Bob, did I miss something in your blog post? I thought your point is that there isn’t training programs for writers like there are for almost every other career that one can go in.
There aren’t, and it is a problem. The training really needs to take place before one gets to the looking for an agent or publisher part of the program.
I’ve been a member of several different online writing communities for several years, and the number of people out there who are totally clueless about how the business works is astounding. You see the ones smart enough to attend writer’s workshops and conferences. I’ve met many, many writers who consider that to be a waste of their time. Many who won’t even read a book on the craft of writing, because they know how to write.
I’m really rather mystified by people who just jump right into doing something without a clue as to what they are doing. I have to wonder if they would jump out of an airplane without knowing how to pack their parachute or exit the plane properly.
Good post, good point.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Have a great Thanksgiving!
Great discussion. Eva, I’m not sure what you mean by ’second class’ authors. Is this in reference to talent, ability, marketability, or something else? Your situation, though, appears to exemplify Bob’s original post about their being no training system for authors.
Your proposed book, a non-fiction history, will have a relatively small target audience, which means limited potential for profit. While some such books ‘break out’ of their category to become huge hits, that happens rarely. Histories are a tiny slice of the publishing pie, so there are far fewer opportunities for them, particularly outside the country/region written about.
It’s a niche market, so to speak, and without knowledge of exactly how it works, writers are lost. Most of the info you can glean from workshops and on the internet applies to fiction and probably doesn’t translate well to non-fiction. I can only imagine how difficult finding an agent/publisher has been for you. Particularly now, during an economy that prohibits publishers from taking on loftier books which improve their status but not their profit margin.
That being said, Harlequin’s latest venture strikes me as Tor’s version of the Pet Rock, my all-time favorite for how to get people to stand in line to hand over their money for absolutely nothing. Except, Tor’s gone a step further. They get you to hand over your money AND provide the rock. But, it’s not a stone out of your driveway, it’s one usuaslly one straight out of your heart.
Caveat Emptor, indeed.
Hope everyone had a chance to contribute here, and great discussion and terrific input, but I think I’m now ready for a new blog entry. So (clears her throat) when might that be?
)) Anybody else?
Damn straight, Bob. DellArte is **not** self-publishing. It’s assisted self-publishing, otherwise known as vanity publishing. It’s a horrific choice for writers to make. And the way that Harlequin is promoting this option — in its **rejection letters** — is simply unethical. Basically, Harlequin is saying “Your manuscript isn’t good enough for us to pay you, but it is good enough for you to pay us.”
Bob,
I saw your comment on the SMTB post about The Lists where you stated you are reissuing some of your backlist as ebooks. This is great and I recently saw another author do this with his backlist, offering his books for $1.99-3.99 through his website, and the direct income he quoted was astounding.
Regarding the above post: When all that HQ/TN happened, I already had personally chosen to pursue my fiction career in the established epub world. An epublisher I know and trust, with a reputation of publishing award winning authors. Like you, I feel the writer has become invisible because of the volume of submissions clogging the channels in the book world.
Thanks for this post and good luck with your new epub venture. I’ll see you in Portland in February 2010.
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